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Wynaut
Dec 11, 2010 21:39:34 GMT -5
Post by NOPE on Dec 11, 2010 21:39:34 GMT -5
Okay, it has come to my attention that Counter and Mirror Coat need to be looked at. While all of Wynaut's moves are support moves, under current battle rules the two moves are either really broken or really useless depending on who went first in the battle. Thus, I present the problem and solutions:
A. The things ingame that make Counter or Mirror Coat okay aren't so here. You have access to an opponent's entire moveset and, if you go second in a battle, know exactly what they'll use on you. This makes Wynaut and Wobbufett even more broken and overpowered here than in the games. It needs to be fixed.
B. If you move first, then the person will know you just used Counter and...won't attack. It'll lead to a stalemate. This makes the entire battle stupid.
Solution A. If Counter and Mirror Coat are used on a Wynaut, have the Wynaut user not specify which one it is.
Example: Wynaut is preparing Mirror Coat! - bad Wynaut is preparing something! - good
Have them immediately, immediately PM a 3rd party admin or mod which one they chose. Then, have them reveal it after the 3rd turn. They don't have to get admin permission to reveal it, but the 3rd party admin/mod see the user is cheating; then the user get punished. If a user has only mirror coat or counter, then they can also prepare a move but not use mirror coat or counter.
I.E.:
Lopunny prepares something! (Only has Mirror Coat) Charmander (predicts Mirror Coat) uses scratch! Lopunny uses Bounce!
Solution B. An "easy" modless solution would to be just to remove Wynaut and Wobbutett entirely...but that's not really fair considering it's a Pokémon too.
Solution C. Solution C would be to run an honor system. This means no extra work or effort...but it means the user of Mirror Coat and Counter can just bend it into their favor anyways.
Thoughts? I'd like this implemented ASAP. Sure, it may be a bit more work and a bit more complicated, but Counter and Mirror Coat are broken as is, and we need to fix it before it gets to be a problem.
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Wynaut
Dec 11, 2010 21:58:25 GMT -5
Post by Gasai Yuno on Dec 11, 2010 21:58:25 GMT -5
As I am the only one that I know off that have a Wynaut which Mirror Coat and Counter are in its moveset. I can say.. I Agree. I understand that it's more effort on my part since I have to like PM a poor "third party", but it's a fair thing. And to be honest it's not much work to PM a third party either. Stamp of Approval [/b]
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Wynaut
Dec 11, 2010 22:27:18 GMT -5
Post by zacariah on Dec 11, 2010 22:27:18 GMT -5
You can pm me I won't mind having super secret insight into the future of some random fictional chumps and their pokemon. xP kekeke As for the suggestions I don't know! It does sound abusable though I don't really like the thought of making things too complicated as this site is just all about very loose rules and mainly a focus on roleplay and fun xP
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Wynaut
Dec 11, 2010 22:32:08 GMT -5
Post by DR-@@GON on Dec 11, 2010 22:32:08 GMT -5
I think one mod should be the one to PM if we're going by solution A.
I'd have liked Solution C, but although there isn't much cheating going on on Cheyenne, some people can lean towards their own favor.
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Wynaut
Dec 11, 2010 22:35:04 GMT -5
Post by Black Ranger Talis on Dec 11, 2010 22:35:04 GMT -5
If someone only has those moves, they should really only get to use them a limited number of times and then revert to Struggle as far as I'm concerned. Abuse of those moves isn't acceptable, and no move can be used in conjunction with Protect/Mirror Coat/Counter.
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Wynaut
Dec 11, 2010 22:42:27 GMT -5
Post by NOPE on Dec 11, 2010 22:42:27 GMT -5
I'd prefer solution A, and no wild battle or anything is going to last long enough to resort to struggle of counter/mirror coat if they only use it once per turn; it'd end way too quickly. I agree that this is a bit complicated, but I tried to keep it as simple and fun as possible. If there's no restriction on it, it'll just fall by the wayside. The only person it truly pertains to agreed that they'd do it; can we try to do solution A?
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Wynaut
Dec 11, 2010 22:43:21 GMT -5
Post by Sp❣rit on Dec 11, 2010 22:43:21 GMT -5
I think one mod should be the one to PM if we're going by solution A.
I'd have liked Solution C, but although there isn't much cheating going on on Cheyenne, some people can lean towards their own favor.
People really do like to abuse the move. And it is supposed to be a last priority move, however Wynaut also has Encore in order to force physical or special strikes. It's really the only thing the Poke-family has going for it. Take it down with status effects. Use weaker moves then a big one for the big finish. But I always saw those moves kind of like the dodge rule. If its abused too much, yes, we'll get annoyed and send out a warning. Some things, however, are obvious. A Pokemon can go in faking a punch, then switch to water gun. It just seems like a really open thing that I would hope that I could trust the members not to abuse. But in trainer battles, if they also never miss a prediction...and having access to the opponents moves that isn't explained well in a roleplay... I need more convincing.
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Wynaut
Dec 11, 2010 22:50:33 GMT -5
Post by NOPE on Dec 11, 2010 22:50:33 GMT -5
Then how do you suggest we regulate it in a pokemon that's based around it? Wynaut can't even do anything else at that point. They also learn Safeguard to prevent status effects. I still think I've made enough valid points and put out enough evidence to have a very simple action done.
The thing about the "dodge rule" is Wynaut can't really use anything else aside from stat lowering moves and Safeguard to do anything. I really really think that solution A would be a good way to regulate it.
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Wynaut
Dec 11, 2010 22:57:08 GMT -5
Post by arionne ♥ on Dec 11, 2010 22:57:08 GMT -5
Personally, i would hope that option (C) works. I would like to think that members are going to be honest.
However, wynaut and wobba a hard pokemon to roleplay battles correctly. I would actually prefer a random system, where it doesn't matter which one you internally, chose, there is just a 50% chance that it works/fails.
Of course, it would be up to the member's discretion whether or not the 50% works. So it would be something in the lines of "Wobbaffet is getting ready!" "Rattata uses tackle" And then there is a 50% chance that it counters.
However, if a pokemon only does have physical moves, AND THE TRAINER IS AWARE OF THAT FACT, I guess it is possible that wobba just constantly counters instead of MM.
This would, of course, rely on the members being honest, but it's the same for paral, confusion, and poison. I trust the members not to completely abuse the system.
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Wynaut
Dec 11, 2010 23:03:24 GMT -5
Post by NOPE on Dec 11, 2010 23:03:24 GMT -5
So mix solution C with coin flipping, how about this.
Counter Person prepares Counter/Mirror Coat.
50% chance to work, you flip a coin. Heads it hits, Tails it doesn't.
If they only have physical or special moves, then it returns to 100% accuracy.
It'd be kind of broken early on, but then even out later. That'd make people with physical and special moves better, though.
Edit: And with a coin, it'd kind of give you more of an idea. Subbie's pretty honest, I'll even flip for him if he needs it. So apply this idea?
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Wynaut
Dec 12, 2010 2:57:49 GMT -5
Post by freeziepop on Dec 12, 2010 2:57:49 GMT -5
I am actually okay without the coin flipping and just going on the honor system. I do think that the "Wynaut/Wobby is readying something!" post is a very good start; I feel like the members are honest and obv if they aren't playing fair you guys can always PM one of us and we can tell them to knock it off.
That's sort of how every move is here- there aren't really any "stats" or "coin flips" or "regulations", we're more lax and easy going. If someone is going to abuse something to the point that everybody else gets pissed off, obviously the admins are going to notice and step in and say "wtf you doing there bro".
tl;dr - I liked solution C, only without the coin flipping/whatnot. The majority of the site/users on the site do not have access to counter/mirror coat presently so it only affects a very small amount of people. Having special rules for such a minority is just kind of a chore.
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Wynaut
Dec 12, 2010 3:34:56 GMT -5
Post by tomackze on Dec 12, 2010 3:34:56 GMT -5
Problem here is the "preparing something good" can also be taken to automatically mean either mirror coat or counter and thus the pokemon will still only use an attack like "sand attack" or something.
This same rule applies for people who use bide. You know it is coming and thus you can prepare for it very easily. It is kind of a hard rule to deal with... it is very difficult to fix IMO
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Wynaut
Dec 12, 2010 4:59:46 GMT -5
Post by arionne ♥ on Dec 12, 2010 4:59:46 GMT -5
This is where 'honesty' comes in <3
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Wynaut
Dec 12, 2010 13:31:38 GMT -5
Post by Sp❣rit on Dec 12, 2010 13:31:38 GMT -5
I also expect trainers to make mistakes. No such thing as a flawless battle. I also don't want to hear about dishonest coin flips or notice an unfair pattern going on and have to accuse somebody of being...ya know. not fair.
It does make me think that a team of all Wobbuffets would be quite terrifying. XD But it's their strategy. All they got. All about predicting. Machamps are definitely....going to have issues with them. Same as Gardevoirs.
But Wobbuffet is pretty restricted as it is. Counter and Mirror Coat cannot be paired with any other attacks. Safeguard can only be used once, unless it uses splash or something lol, and there are just...ways. Stall war. But if you want to say 'preparing something' that is quite fine when it comes to those two attacks.
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Wynaut
Dec 12, 2010 14:00:56 GMT -5
Post by shirochigo on Dec 12, 2010 14:00:56 GMT -5
Whip up some confusion and toxic and we got some dead Wobbys. :3
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Wynaut
Dec 12, 2010 14:37:45 GMT -5
Post by NOPE on Dec 12, 2010 14:37:45 GMT -5
Safeguard, Safeguard, Safeguard
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Wynaut
Dec 12, 2010 14:40:14 GMT -5
Post by Sp❣rit on Dec 12, 2010 14:40:14 GMT -5
Even Safeguard wears off. And if you're confused first, bro. Plus Taunt. And Defog, I believe, gets rid off it.
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Wynaut
Jan 3, 2011 0:34:58 GMT -5
Post by arionne ♥ on Jan 3, 2011 0:34:58 GMT -5
FINAL VERDICT
We will use the 'preparing something' if you have both counter and mirror coat, with a 50% chance of it working, unless there are special circumstances.
However, this doesn't quite warrant a genius point. Sorry.
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